Matrix Report
Tasnim Aslam, former ambassador, believes Pakistan is too important in the region to be ignored. That is why a number of Middle Eastern and African countries have been looking upto “us” in times of crisis. She bemoans what is generally know as the selective application of laws on smaller countries as part of global geo-politics but insists that Pakistan must speak up and stand for what it deems fit in its national interest. Below are excerpts of Ms. Aslam’s exclusive interview with MatrixMag.
Would you say the elimination of General Suleimani was a neo-normal, a new dangerous precedent?
It is unprecedented, and patently illegal. But it would become neo-normal if the US gets away with it. If they feel that it hasn’t had the negative repercussion and the cost of hitting General Suleimani wasn’t high then it would become a neo-normal.
What does the precedent – killing of the Iranian General Qassem Solemani – mean for smaller countries like Pakistan?
We have had our Osama bin Laden moment, we have had the assassination of leaders in the past, although there were no fingerprints. But you know when leaders become inconvenient they are removed. We have seen that pattern everywhere in the world. But if countries like India start thinking that, yes this is something they can also emulate. But what India did after the February 2019 (Balakot attack), and the kind of bloody nose it got they would hesitate in indulging in adventurism. But I cannot rule out because it’s not a rational government in India. These are irrational people, they live in some other make-believe world, and control the media They can sell a different narrative to their people even if they get a bloody nose.
Every time there’s a conflict next door in the Middle East, Pakistan invariably gets sucked into it. Do you think this is inevitable? Can Pakistan steer clear of such conflicts by not getting directly or indirectly involved? What is the necessity?
This region is far too important. Our foreign policy relationships are very intricately intertwined sense that focus on the Muslim world. And also our relationship with the countries, Iran is our next door neighbor with which we have very deep historical linguistic cultural relations. Then we have the Gulf countries that have helped Pakistan a lot, particularly Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia has extended help to Pakistan in times of difficulties. The religious element that binds us to this entire region and the impact it has on Pakistan. If there is a war or more conflict in this region does not give us the space to distance ourselves and say that OK it’s their business they can fight and kill each other but we will stay aloof. At the same time it is not possible for Pakistan to take sides we cannot say that ‘OK’ or even pronounce during Iraq, Iran war, Iraq was clearly the aggressor. Even then we did not side with Iraq like many other Muslim countries. But we did not side with Iran either. One benefit of staying nonpartisan is that.
You can help these countries come together sit across the table and resolve their differences and this is what we have done traditionally. There are many examples in the history where Pakistan was instrumental in bringing the two states that were on the verge of a conflict or their relationship had deteriorated to that degree. Where we were able to bring them together and arrange their meetings between the leadership and somehow create a space for them to resolve their differences. So this time also effort by Pakistan has been to play that role not take sides but help them come together or be a facilitator between two or more states not to let the situation get out of hands.
But has it really helped ever the state of Pakistan particularly because we are talking of geo political considerations, geopolitical conflicts which seem to also have prevented Pakistan from marketing itself as a big country as a secular country which has big vast opportunities available for the investors. So it remains stigmatized.
No there are two things. One was that, has Pakistan ever succeeded? Yes we have, example is 1996 Saudi Arabia, Iran. They were in a similar situation their relationship was very tense and we brought together Saudi king crown prince and president of Iran during the extraordinary OIC summit. We changed the meeting and then from there things started moving. President of Iran performed Hutch at the invitation of the king of Saudi Arabia and the relationship to a large extent became normal as much as it was possible between these countries. That is true that we have not been able to take advantage of our geography. We are situated in one of the most important regions where the big power interests with economic interests of many countries intersect. Or somehow we have always have taken the bone instead of the bane of that geo strategic location. It has nothing to do with Pakistan being secular or non-secular or how we market ourselves. You look at what you stand for.
Pakistan was a country that during decolonization became independent but there were many countries of Maghreb, for instance, or African countries that were still under colonial rule and French were not with the kind colonizers. They would not allow the leaders of Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia to travel even. We Pakistan provided them diplomatic passports they were to be part of Pakistani delegation they would be able to go to conferences and speak for their countries or express their views. So this is what we have stood for and while it seems that we did not it was to Pakistan’s disadvantage. I think it also brought a prestige to Pakistan. As a country that smaller country we are a medium sized country we are not a small country and in many ways we are very privileged. We have made strides that other countries look up to. Pakistan was a country on a pedestal that they looked up to because it could help them it would stand up with them it would speak out. And to this day Pakistan remains leader of J77 developing countries. So it’s not just political field it’s also the economic interest of the developing countries. How Pakistan has articulated those over the years. So that gives Pakistan that unique position. But what makes Pakistan you talked about stigmatized. It’s not a stigma that is based in reality. It is a stigma that has been attached to Pakistan or a narrative created in Pakistan which paints Pakistan in very morbid colors. And they’re not based on reality. It is because we don’t have much convergence with the present narrative makers. And they’re always in the history if you see, they are narrative makers. The victors, the controller of the global power centers. So we no matter what we do we will continue to be on the receiving end.
But there has to be something why it hasn’t changed?
Recently the State Department issued a report treatment of religious minorities. Pakistan was a country of concern. India was not, what credibility? we should not be too much in the race to please others if we learn to stand up for what we believe in and adhere to it probably we will have far more respect and say in the global arenas’.
